CSA's vs. Farm Market.......

well done. Congrats on being “first”.
Now.. what is CSA?

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

What is CSA?

-- Eklectic, Follow my Bliss, South East Ontario 5a

Is the South rising again? What is CSA?

-- Living on the square...Metro Detroit

CSA = Community Supported Agriculture.

This works well here in NL and is how a few of our small organic farms operate.

Participants pay up front for the season and receive a weekly or monthly basket of produce, flowers, fruits, eggs, milk, or any farm products. Usually this will vary depending on crops.

Some actually help out in weeding, planting, harvesting, packaging for a reduction in their share cost.

Paying up front also helps with choosing how much product to produce and helps pay for seeds and supplies…If crops don’t preform well then a portion can be refunded or “donated” to the farm for next season.

It does givee people a sense of involvement as many CSA also allow member to choose from a list of seeds they would like to see grown.

Here in Canada I think it is also of benefit to the farmer as you do not have to claim it as a “business” as it is more of a “farm share” so therefore you are not actually making as much money as if you were selling items at a market. For anything over $30,000 in “sales” you have to claim taxes and run it as a business. Whereas, if I am gathering this right…A “share” is not an actual sale so you can sell much more without having to operate as an official business.

We are looking at doing this in the future.

-- Xploreorganics, 5b Canada, LFD 06-20

I have heard of this and think it is brilliant. The other benefit of it is that people come to realize the risks that farmers deal with all the time!

Here in Ontario, farmers are really struggling. Because other countries, US for example, support their farmers financially with.. doh.. lost the word…[subsidized] they can offer their produce at discounted rates. For our Canadian farmers to match it they have to run at a “break even” rate. Going “in business” with the consumer and sharing out the crops helps them be a viable business AND promotes “buy local” which also will keep the farms afloat.

Here in SW Ontario we have now what they call “The Green Belt” where cities can’t build – they want to keep it green. Sounds awesome. But, rumour has it that they are forcing cities to expand where they want it to (farm land mostly) and then ten years down the road they’ll open up the green belt for building and we lose all of our prime farm land and we have one big giant urban area.

I’m not sure where we think we are going to get our food from if we aren’t growing it ourselves.

Anyway.. I got off on a rant there.. sorry about that…

What I’ve heard about the CSA process is that the farmers do their farming as usual and people just buy their share up front and hope for a bumper crop. The farmers are sure of a sale; buyers are getting local, produce picked at the best time. A win-win situation.
Yes, there is a risk that the weather is horrific and the crop does not yield well. That’s a farmer’s life so I’m not sure how that plays out for the consumer.

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

or 20 years younger with 40 acres of soil
haha
if I was 40 years younger I’d be 10 and hating going out into the fields to hoe, and hating sticking my hands in those wet strawberry leaves, and hating picking those picky cucumbers when the weather was 100 F and sweat was dripping down my face …. and hating picking those stupid raspberries, even though you got to stand up to do it… and and..
haha

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

We have two farmers markets near us, one 15 minute drive North, the other a 15 minute drive south and open only on Saturday morings. A small fee is charged for a booth and they sell everything from fresh baked goods, fruits, veggies, flowers, deli meats, perogies, crafts, fish. I bring 40 bucks when I go and rarely bring home any change.

As my garden grows I will at some point build a portable booth for the roadside to sell fresh eggs and seasonal produce. There is a fella not too far away that does the same and is open daily from 3 to 6 pm…...sold out everyday.

Best market I have ever seen, bar none. Is in Windsor Onatrio Canada. Albeit it has changed locations since I was a boy and isnt quite the same it is still a “must see” when I go and visit family. So many cultures that sell everything you can think of. From whole lamb, pig, chicken feet, dozens of butcher shops, fruit shops, bakers and all kinds of produce at prices that cant be beat. The smells that fill the air and the sounds of a dozen different languages is just fantastic. ...............I do miss it.

Another “must see” down Windsor way is “Colasantis Green Houses”. You can dine under an orange tree, thousands upon thousands of plants, a petting zoo and tropical birds….......fantastic

-- Central northish Ontario

the market sounds like quite an experience!

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

Unless the market you refer to is different then the one I saw there is only about a dozen maybe 2 stalls in total… nice place to see but smaller then you described? maybe it is bigger in the summer, for now there are maybe 6 butchers, 2 breads 1 dessert, and 6-10 fruit/veggie places… oh and one dairy/cheese place…

Colisanties has been a favourite place since I was a little kid. There were a ton more plants back then… Now it seams as though their plants are 2nd stage to the tourist trap aspects, with only a third at best of the orriginal space. Definately a place to spend the day still. infact I will be going next week ;)

Back to the main topic… I think the draw to CSA’s is that it’s in theory more secure. If you have the produce, it won’t be going to waste. kinda a simular idea as heinz’s tomatoe contracts… you know that come the end you’ll have a buyer for a set amount, anything extra is just gravey! Where as a farmers market is more time intensive (have to man your booth), have to hope someone wants what you brought (and that there aren’t a dozen others out there), have to rent space…just sounds less of a hastle.
Sib ;)

Well, my main strategy is to grow things that the others in the market don’t grow. My thinking is I can buy red potatoes anywhere, anytime. Or corn, or tomatoes, etc. I’m figuring on things that are unusual, so, at the market I might have a leg up.

I’m not sure I would mind sitting at the market every saturday. A job is a job.

Maybe I just don’t want anybody to feel like they have their hooks in me. I guess I kinda like the idea of “if you want it, buy it. Otherwise, go away” (you can tell what a people person I am.)

Well, options are always good to have. I’ll be checking out CSA’s more along with organic certification (although, I have a feeling the cert. will not attract much of my attention.)

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist......Zone out....(USA 5)

I would imagine that “organic” and “health benefits” information would increase sales.

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

I know with me…I always ask if they are certified…to make sure they know the rules…I am willing to pay the premium for that…If they are not I ask their practices and may even visit the farm. One guy told me he was as organ-tic as you can get…no sprays…nothin’ he said. When I went to visit there the poor guy was with a bag of 2-4,D dusting everything by the handfulls with no gloves on…I left and later (after the dust settled) asked what he was doing with the poison and did he read the labels…he said NAAAA its just a bitta weed killer no pesticides…

So I am an organic nut but I would prefer certified…I do buy non-certified produce of one farmer here, that is because he is our only organic certifier and can’t certify himself :)

-- Xploreorganics, 5b Canada, LFD 06-20

This last bit is quite ironical!

-- Eklectic, Follow my Bliss, South East Ontario 5a

the stories that are out there—sheesh

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

Well, I’m kinda old fashioned. I don’t need the government to tell me what I can say and what I can’t. If I say I’m organic, then, I’m organic. If you choose to believe me then fine, if not, fine. If I have a good product then people will buy it.

I know people will say or think something to the effect of “you have to ‘play by those rules’ if you want to run a business and make money.’ I’d rather live my life the way I know is best…and the government doesn’t know how I should live. If it means not selling my produce, the, I’ll get fat eating it all myself.

I’ve done the government thing and based on my experiences, the administration involved is probably a big contributor to why organic produce is really expensive. It becomes a major part of running the business. That time is better spent in the garden, me thinks.

I do understand the importance of “government certification” to some people. Laws are for people who don’t care or won’t care about what they do to other people. Personally I don’t think a cert. means squat (knowing my government.) But, I suppose if it meant making some really big bucks that would more than cover the extra expense, then, I’d probably do it.

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist......Zone out....(USA 5)

I guess to me it is the difference in hiring an architect with a licence or hiring one with tallent…depends on what you want and who you trust to know the building code and how to draft.

-- Xploreorganics, 5b Canada, LFD 06-20

down near Riverside drive, near Hiram Walkers

last time I was there and it wasnt that long ago, they had a whole floor dedictated to produce, another to meat, poultry, and another to baking, amogst them all, were intermitant booths of “culture”.......just to mix it up.

somehow the fish store, for what ever reason….......was alone and somewhat sorta isolated?........I couldnt go to the market without a visit to the fish store ( I say “store” because its the only one there, if their were two fish stores then some might think it was a “fish market”). And then stand back and watch what people actually buy and then know they ate it?............can be shocking for some!

perhaps you have the wrong market?.....always surprising the jewels that we stand near and never notice.

-- Central northish Ontario

FYI

I grew organic carrots last year and my partner and her children refused to eat them. I was alarmed by the news when I heard it over the phone. When I returned home and dug a few of my certainly “certifiable organically grown” carrots…..................I refused to eat them too

more tenacles coming off them then an anenome?

most looked phalic is some wierd way that just made ya say “stop” , dont eat that…........and yet…...100% ORGANIC. The neighbors “miracle grow” carrots looked like the kinda carrots I’m used to eating.

How spoiled am I?................

-- Central northish Ontario

that’s pretty spoiled Greenthumb :) I’m laughing.

My husband’s relatives used to own a farm on the “holland marsh” north of Toronto (rich farm soil). I was shocked to hear that they had to throw out carrots if they had little nooks in them that would hold a speck of dirt or if they had extra carrot growing… here we are complaining about the cost of food, people going to food banks because they can’t afford groceries and we are throwing out pounds and pounds and pounds of food because they have a little dirt on them???

get out that scraper and peel the roots off those carrots and say “woo hoo extra carrot” when you find one with a leg or arm.

re: officially organic. My father-in-law used to take his vegetables to market and he told a story about “the uppity Torontonians” who would come asking for organic. If he said “no” they wouldn’t buy. So he would just tell them that the stuff was organic. He said, “they want vegetables that are perfect – unblemished by bugs, etc” and you can’t get al that without the ’-cides’... so he lied and all the happy organic-lovers were eating contaminates without knowing it.

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

exactly MsD, some farmers think that people just want to hear that the food is organic so they will lie…many figure ahhh…what would a bitta weed/bug killer hurt anyway? So it’s buyer beware for sure, especially when many people buy organic for health reasons as I do.

Also, I think certification is a way of learning how to gorw organically rather than a government stamp. Some people think if you just don’t spray pesticides on a crop then its organic but this is not so. Trying to grow pest-cide free in soils that have been depleted due to prior synthetic pesticide use is a sure way to a disasterous crop…hence “transition stanges” for those switching to organic methods.

You have to build good organic soil, choose pest-resistant varieties and use less toxic methods of weed and insect control including the re-introduction of beneficials that may have been destroyed by prior pesticide use.

Twisted carrots don’t bother me either…they make for interesting photographs too :) This is often due to rocky dry soils but in no way harms the flavour.

“The embarrassed carrot” In the raw:
Isn’t she beautiful..hehehe

I guess in the end the only true way to ensure you know what you are eating is to grow it yourself…and there is something more rewarding about plucking up a bright juicy crip organic carrot even if it is a little twisted. :)

-- Xploreorganics, 5b Canada, LFD 06-20

yah.. pull it up, brush it off on your pants and munch away.. best way to eat a carrot.

(great photo)

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

lol lol lol carrots for breakfast lunch and supper.. that’ll teach ya lol

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

X: to me it doesn’t matter about things like depleted soil from pesticides because if you’re going to grow right, you get the soil to where it needs to be. Of course this doesn’t address things like run-off and stuff. I also live on a hill and would have less to worry about in that general aspect, run-off and such (maybe my neighbors should be worried…)

Aside: Looked at a building last year or so and advised the boss not to think about it. Turns out it used to be a plating business and now the ground is contaminated with chromium…along with acres of the properties down stream.

Aside #2: Worked with some one that once told me if people saw what meat (fresh meat, too…) really looks like, they wouldn’t buy it. Our heirloom tomatoes are ugly as sin but taste better than any store bought.

General:

I figure if I’m doing what I need for organic (as in I don’t want that stuff in my food) then it will be good for anybody buying from me. But, two things….I’m a ‘get into it, research, figure things out, soil tests, etc. etc. kinda guy and it also goes back to what I said about those ‘people’ who don’t care that much about what they do (’ no pesticides…just some weed killer…’). So if anybody really wanted to investigate me, I would be confident that they would be satisfied. (of course, I’m also a throw back…thinking that when a person gives their word it should be better than any contract…....Sherman, set the way-back machine to 1872…)

As to dirt specks on my veggies….don’t even get me started. I got OCD/germaphobe in-laws and that is a WHOLE ‘nother story with me.

eat more dirt…it’s good for you.

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist......Zone out....(USA 5)

It’s good that you are open and honest and don’t mind letting people know how you operate. Some people care, some don’t. Some are happy just to buy local and fresh. And like you said…if it does not sell out then more for you :D

Tell your inlaws that dirt is really not all that dirty good soil has minerals, trace minerals and good bacteria. LOL.

-- Xploreorganics, 5b Canada, LFD 06-20

I agree—be honest and let others decide what they think about it.
It sure makes sleeping better at night knowing that you hadn’t tried to deceive anyone that day.

oh dear… “dirt don’t hurt” (ha just thought of that) :)

-- - Debbie, SW Ontario Canada (USDA Hardiness Zone: 5a)

VERY interesting thread! :)

As a non veggie grower I just gotta tell ya that there is a lot of roadside stands around here and I have tried them all.The ones that have the best tasting fruit and veggies is the one I keep going back to.I don’t ask if its’ organic or not.Like the thread says.Tell them what they want to hear.(lol)

-- Bon,Hastings,Ont.....zone 5a....Always room for one more

I grow all my own veggies

I don’t use fertlizers or pesticides

I use aged manure and my compost only and still by the rules is not organic

The seed needs to be untreated and try and buy it around here

so I am 3/4 organic, lol,lol

-- NS Zone 5B 200 KM East of Halifax cheers Bunting------Having a place to go – is a home. Having someone to love – is a family.